The Wick Culture - Portrait of Alexandra Daisy Ginsberg. Photo: © Nathalie Théry. The Wick Culture - Portrait of Alexandra Daisy Ginsberg. Photo: © Nathalie Théry.
Monday Muse

Interview Award-Winning Artist Alexandra Daisy Ginsberg

Interview
Alexandra Daisy Ginsberg
Photography
Nathalie Théry
10 July 2023
Interview
Alexandra Daisy Ginsberg
Photography
Nathalie Théry
10 July 2023
Last month saw multi-disciplinary artist Alexandra Daisy Ginsberg scoop the European Commission’s S+T+ARTS Grand Prize, which honours innovation in technology, industry and society stimulated by the arts. After an intense judging process, the jury declared her interspecies living artwork Pollinator Pathmaker as the winner, adding “it serves as a vivid illustration of the crucial role of innovative exploration at the intersection of art, ecology, and technology can play in tackling key ecological challenges”.

Bringing together science, technology and art, Ginsberg’s practice has long explored the fraught relationships with the human race, nature and technology. She has spent over 10 years engaging with the field of synthetic biology, working with scientists, engineers, artists and museums around the world. Her artworks, writing and curatorial projects also cover artificial intelligence, conservation, biodiversity, evolution, and the human impulse to “better” the world.

Currently exhibiting at Toledo Museum of Art in collaboration with Superblue, and with recent exhibitions in prestigious spaces such as The Natural History Museum, Serpentine Galleries and LAS Art Foundation at Museum für Naturkunde, Ginsberg has exhibited internationally. Further, Ginsberg has been recognised and awarded with countless awards, including the World Technology Award for Design in 2011, the London Design Medal for Emerging Talent in 2012, and the Dezeen Changemaker Award in 2019.

THE WICK:   Tell us about your typical Monday.

Alexandra Daisy Ginsberg :   The best Mondays start when Peanut (my dog) and I hear the lions roaring for their breakfast as we walk in Regent’s Park. It’s a good hit of artificial nature to get the week going. The day varies: juggling meetings and check-ins with my team, or I may be on site installing or trying to carve out time for creative practice. I make big, complex, multi-disciplinary installations that require many different specialists to bring them to life, from string theory physicists to horticulturists. A lot of my day is talking to bring people together into a shared vision.

TW:   What are the goals of Pollinator Pathmaker?

ADG:   Pollinator Pathmaker is a living artwork for insects. I created an algorithm that creates planting schemes that maximise pollinator diversity. You can then plant these as living artworks. They may look like gardens, but they are not. We design gardens for ourselves, but my algorithm buffers my aesthetic choices to suit pollinating insects’ tastes, not human tastes. I want to make artworks that inspire empathy for other species and inspire agency to help them. You can use the online tool at www.pollinator.art to create your own unique DIY Edition and then download the instructions to fabricate it.

Alongside the DIY Editions are the big commissioned Editions that propel the project. The first is at the Eden Project, Cornwall, the second is in Kensington Gardens for the Serpentine, and we’ve just opened the third, carpeting the forecourt of the Museum für Naturkunde Berlin, commissioned by LAS Art Foundation. Each of these big Editions commissioned in a new region includes curating a new regional plant list for the algorithm to select from. That list is then donated back to www.pollinator.art, enabling the local DIY campaign. The more artworks planted near each other, the more they support each other’s flourishing. Rather than existing as individual gardens, they become a network across the landscape for insects to forage between. I want to make the world’s largest climate-positive artwork so please get planting – or help us add new regions!

TW:   What’s the next biggest development you foresee between art and technology?

ADG:   AI is the biggest development. More precisely, the new accessible tools we’ve seen emerge in the last 18 months have meant lots of long-brewing issues are now more in the public domain, such as around IP, dataset ethics, obsolete skills, authorship, novelty, and even what constitutes art. We have these exciting new tools to play with but artists must also critically investigate technologies through our practice: art is aesthetics and it’s also politics. I see my role – my social contract as an artist – as examining and challenging the world we live in. I’m surrounded by lots of artists at Somerset House Studios [Ginsberg is a resident] and in my wider network undertaking this too. I’d like to see: more investigation of technology, through art.

TW:   How do you believe technology, in particular AI, can be used to build a better world?

ADG:   I don’t think technology can necessarily be used to build a better world. Any technology is infused with human values and deployed according to human values. By definition, what we create is to benefit ourselves: my PhD looked at this problem of “better” and how we define it, who defines it, and who gets to decide and benefit. This year, by one report global spending on AI is projected at $154 billion, which will create trillions in wealth. Imagine if we spent that protecting ecosystems, which need attention now! AI may have useful applications that do or will benefit certain humans directly. There are also indirect benefits to us if we use it to support our environment. But the rate of the presently unfolding climate and biodiversity disasters, to my mind, must be addressed through social and political and economic means in the urgent present, not by future technologies.

And on a side note, humans this year will spend $131 billion on ice cream. Imagine if we spent that on protecting ice caps…

“I want to make artworks that inspire empathy for other species and inspire agency to help them.”

TW:   Why do you think nature is such a powerful subject for creatives?

ADG:   Nature is our world; it is everything, not a separate thing. Then modernity conceptually and physically cleaved the world into two halves: nature and us. Yet we are part of nature, we are sustained by nature, and what we create is part of nature. There is no delineation: we dig holes to make things. My work examines this conflicted relationship we have with nature and with technology, depleting one to prioritise the other. Without a flourishing natural world, there is no viable future for humans. Which in biological and geological time doesn’t really matter.

TW:   Tell us about your latest immersive installation, Machine Auguries: Toledo, created in collaboration with Superblue and the Toledo Museum of Art.

ADG:   Machine Auguries: Toledo is a 12-minute orchestration of a dawn chorus, gradually taken over by artificial birds, created using AI. I used a generative adversarial network (GAN), which is a pair of neural networks – a generator and a discriminator – that, like birds in conversation, are performing a call and response. Having been trained on datasets of things that already exist, the GAN can then produce new images or sounds. It’s the technology behind deep fakes and DALL-E. In this case, my GAN trained on 100,000 field recordings of local and migratory bird species iconic to the Toledo dawn, provided by the Macaulay Library at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology.

Visitors enter the gallery in the gloaming blue light of the pre-dawn and sit in a clearing under a vast artificial sky. An American robin punctures the hum of crickets as it utters the first call of the dawn. It sings again. Then a machine sings back from across the clearing. This first artificial bird is from very early in the GAN process, so it is glitchy. Over time, the calls increase in fidelity as more birds join, from the northern cardinal to the black-capped chickadee. As the chorus swells, the sky washes to a silvery blue and then erupts into the peach of the breaking dawn. Deep machine sounds swirl overhead across 24 speakers. Slowly, the calls thin as the sky rolls into the cool light of day. By the end, it’s unclear whether what we are listening to is real, but it is all artificial. The last few birds sing, and then it is silent. We are indoors, in the absence of nature, taking time to listen to an unnatural reconstruction of the unreplicable natural world outside.

The dawn chorus peaks in the spring and early summer as birds mark territory and find mates. We think of habitat loss and pollution as the reason for dangerously declining bird populations, but human-made noise and light pollution have insidious effects as well. Artificial light confuses birds: how do you sing at dawn if the day lasts all night? Noise pollution is also making birds sing earlier, louder and at a higher pitch – if they can. Birds play a vital role in functioning ecosystems: I want to focus on the beauty – and the fragility – of their song.

Machine Auguries: Toledo is the second in a series; the first iteration was commissioned by Somerset House recreating a UK chorus in 2019. I’m increasingly making series of site-specific works, like this and Pollinator Pathmaker, to bring attention to the uniqueness of local ecosystems while showing their interconnectedness in a larger system.

TW:   You are an artist, but also a curator and researcher – how do you balance these different hats?

ADG:   These labels are blurry: for me as an artist, everything is about asking questions, analysing things, making connections and finding the medium to ask and explore these questions. My artworks are rooted in and informed by deep research. My greatest pleasure is learning from scientists and experts, spending time in their world and their methods to respond to and provoke from my perspective. I want my work to fuel new ways of thinking for them too – that’s the most profound and generative kind of collaboration. Curating, as I practice it, is another way to collect these ideas together and stimulate new ones.

TW:   What places or books do you find the most inspiration from?

ADG:   I’ll take any nature. A good walk in the woods, a nice mountain, a bit of seaside action… My parents are from Cape Town and I think the Cape is the most beautiful place in the world. They spent a few years farming rooibos tea and grapes in the Cederberg mountains, north of Cape Town. The scale and colours and smell of the natural landscape of the Cape are sublime – and, of course, complicated. I never lived there but visited every year since I was born, I feel connected to those landscapes. That said, I spent most of my childhood in the Hampshire countryside so a bit of mud makes me happy.

TW:   What is your go-to fashion brand for an art world summer party?

ADG:   My filter is big, brash floral… I love Stine Goya and I’d happily wear more Oscar de la Renta if I could! That said, I’m trying to find brands that use biodegradable materials and manufacture clothes responsibly. When I buy new clothes (guiltily), I buy less, spend on something well-made, love it, and wear it for years.

TW:   What meal, music and book would you want on a desert island?

ADG:   A schnitzel with jus Parisienne would go down well. I’m assuming I’m not leaving this island and it’s a solo mission? Then I’d be listening to Monty Python’s Always Look on the Bright Side of Life. My book would be Luigi Serafini’s Codex Seraphinianus. An illustrated encyclopedia of the biology and cultures of an imaginary world, written in an unknown language. That should keep me busy as I create my alternative world.


Share story
Further Information
READ MORE
The Wick Culture - Portrait of Cora Sheibani wearing Butterfly Earrings and Picasso Ring
Monday Muse

Interview: Jewellery Designer Cora Sheibani

The Wick Culture - Zandra Rhodes Portrait by Simon Emmett
Monday Muse

Interview Fashion Designer Dame Zandra Rhodes

The Wick Culture - Florence Bourgeois
Photography by Paar Room
Monday Muse

Interview Paris Photo Director, Florence Bourgeois

The Wick Culture - Courtesy of Meneesha Kellay
Monday Muse

Interview: Senior Curator V&A Meneesha Kellay

The Wick Culture - Photo courtesy of Dentaa Amoateng MBE
Monday Muse

Interview Lady Dentaa Amoateng MBE

The Wick Culture - Jenn Ellis, 2024. Photography Bart Pajak
Monday Muse

Interview Curator Jenn Ellis